Forward new messages from IBM: 
  * If you set PAMID_COLLECTIVES_MEMORY_OPTIMIZED=1 then the pami optimized collectives are disabled for that comm and the geometry / collective network is not created at comm creation time if the block is irregular, so the comm dup/split performance is good.  So for now the user can go ahead and use it, and if there are problems with it we'll need to decide then if we will support it or look at what code changes would be necessary to address the underlying issue. 
  * This whole 'power-of-2' thing was basically too loose a definition for an irregular block, for Blue Gene /Q at the moment there is no crystal-clear formal definition, but a tighter one would be a block that is fully populated with every node in all 5 dimensions, with the same number of MPI ranks on each node --- there are still some exceptions and caveats beyond this that can only be answered by looking at the code, but this is the tightest and simplest definition I can come up with at the moment. 

On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 10:51 AM, Sam Williams <swwilliams@lbl.gov> wrote:
All of Mira (48k) is technically not a power of two.

I tried the pami option at one point.  I don't recall it giving better performance

- Sam

On Sep 22, 2014, at 8:39 AM, Junchao Zhang <jczhang@mcs.anl.gov> wrote:

Sam, 
   I had some updates from IBM last week. They reproduced the problem and found it only happens when the number of MPI ranks is non-power-of-2.  Their advice is that since the IBM BG/Q optimized collectives themselves are mostly designed only to be helpful for blocks with power-of-2 geometries,  you can try in your program to see if subsequent collective calls with PAMID_COLLECTIVES=1 are actually faster than PAMID_COLLECTIVES=0 on comms with a non-power-of-2 geometry. If the answer is no, then you can just run with PAMID_COLLECTIVES=0 and avoid the dup/split performance issue. Otherwise, IBM may prioritize this ticket.

  Thanks.
--Junchao Zhang

On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 4:41 PM, Junchao Zhang <jczhang@mcs.anl.gov> wrote:
Hi, Sam,  
  I wrote micro-benchmarks for MPI_Comm_split/dup. My profiling results suggested the problem lies in a IBM PAMI library call, PAMI_Geometry_create_taskrange().  Unfortunately, I don't have access to the PAMI source code and don't know why. I reported it to IBM and hope IBM will fix it.
  Alternatively, you can set an environment variable PAMID_COLLECTIVES=0 to disables pami collectives. My tests showed it at least fixed the scalability problem of Comm_split and Comm_dup.
  Also through profiling, I found the qsort() called in MPICH code is actually using the merge sort algorithm in Mira's libc library.
  
   

--Junchao Zhang


On Sat, May 17, 2014 at 9:06 AM, Sam Williams <swwilliams@lbl.gov> wrote:
I've been conducting scaling experiments on the Mira (Blue Gene/Q) and K (Sparc) supercomputers.  I've noticed that the time required for MPI_Comm_split and MPI_Comm_dup can grow quickly with scale (~P^2).  As such, its performance eventually becomes a bottleneck.  That is, although the benefit of using a subcommunicator is huge (multigrid solves are weak-scalable), the penalty of creating one (multigrid build time) is also huge.

For example, when scaling from 1 to 46K nodes (= cubes of integers) on Mira, the time (in seconds) required to build a MG solver (including a subcommunicator) scales as
222335.output:   Total time in MGBuild      0.056704
222336.output:   Total time in MGBuild      0.060834
222348.output:   Total time in MGBuild      0.064782
222349.output:   Total time in MGBuild      0.090229
222350.output:   Total time in MGBuild      0.075280
222351.output:   Total time in MGBuild      0.091852
222352.output:   Total time in MGBuild      0.137299
222411.output:   Total time in MGBuild      0.301552
222413.output:   Total time in MGBuild      0.606444
222415.output:   Total time in MGBuild      0.745272
222417.output:   Total time in MGBuild      0.779757
222418.output:   Total time in MGBuild      4.671838
222419.output:   Total time in MGBuild     15.123162
222420.output:   Total time in MGBuild     33.875626
222421.output:   Total time in MGBuild     49.494547
222422.output:   Total time in MGBuild    151.329026

If I disable the call to MPI_Comm_Split, my time scales as
224982.output:   Total time in MGBuild      0.050143
224983.output:   Total time in MGBuild      0.052607
224988.output:   Total time in MGBuild      0.050697
224989.output:   Total time in MGBuild      0.078343
224990.output:   Total time in MGBuild      0.054634
224991.output:   Total time in MGBuild      0.052158
224992.output:   Total time in MGBuild      0.060286
225008.output:   Total time in MGBuild      0.062925
225009.output:   Total time in MGBuild      0.097357
225010.output:   Total time in MGBuild      0.061807
225011.output:   Total time in MGBuild      0.076617
225012.output:   Total time in MGBuild      0.099683
225013.output:   Total time in MGBuild      0.125580
225014.output:   Total time in MGBuild      0.190711
225016.output:   Total time in MGBuild      0.218329
225017.output:   Total time in MGBuild      0.282081

Although I didn't directly measure it, this suggests the time for MPI_Comm_Split is growing roughly quadratically with process concurrency.




I see the same effect on the K machine (8...64K nodes) where the code uses comm_split/dup in conjunction:
run00008_7_1.sh.o2412931:   Total time in MGBuild      0.026458 seconds
run00064_7_1.sh.o2415876:   Total time in MGBuild      0.039121 seconds
run00512_7_1.sh.o2415877:   Total time in MGBuild      0.086800 seconds
run01000_7_1.sh.o2414496:   Total time in MGBuild      0.129764 seconds
run01728_7_1.sh.o2415878:   Total time in MGBuild      0.224576 seconds
run04096_7_1.sh.o2415880:   Total time in MGBuild      0.738979 seconds
run08000_7_1.sh.o2414504:   Total time in MGBuild      2.123800 seconds
run13824_7_1.sh.o2415881:   Total time in MGBuild      6.276573 seconds
run21952_7_1.sh.o2415882:   Total time in MGBuild     13.634200 seconds
run32768_7_1.sh.o2415884:   Total time in MGBuild     36.508670 seconds
run46656_7_1.sh.o2415874:   Total time in MGBuild     58.668228 seconds
run64000_7_1.sh.o2415875:   Total time in MGBuild    117.322217 seconds


A glance at the implementation on Mira (I don't know if the implementation on K is stock) suggests it should be using qsort to sort based on keys.  Unfortunately, qsort is not performance robust like heap/merge sort.  If one were to be productive and call comm_split like...
MPI_Comm_split(...,mycolor,myrank,...)
then one runs the risk that the keys are presorted.  This hits the worst case computational complexity for qsort... O(P^2).  Demanding programmers avoid sending sorted keys seems unreasonable.


I should note, I see a similar lack of scaling with MPI_Comm_dup on the K machine.  Unfortunately, my BGQ data used an earlier version of the code that did not use comm_dup.  As such, I can’t definitively say that it is a problem on that machine as well.

Thus, I'm asking for scalable implementations of comm_split/dup using merge/heap sort whose worst case complexity is still PlogP to be prioritized in the next update.


thanks
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