Corner elements giving large values
Dear Nek forum, I am simulating Rayleigh Benard flow in a 3D finite cylindrical annulus. I am getting spurious large values of velocity at the corner regions of the annulus i.e. the edges where the inner cylinder joins the top and bottom planes. The boundary condition is no-slip and no penetration for velocity at these edges. Can someone point out a plausible reason. Thank you Swarandeep
Hi Swarandeep, How large is your Rayleigh number and what is your resolution? What are your thermal bcs? What are your ICs? There should be no particular issue with your configuration - but you do need to control spatial and temporal resolution. For RB, you often have to start at low Ra and/or small dt because the nonlinear response can often drive the velocities to be quite high very rapidly before the CFL constraint kicks in. RB flows are one of the rare instances where I use variable time step size (param 12 > 0), but even then you have to keep the target CFL quite small until the flow is established. hth, Paul ________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of [email protected] [[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2017 7:27 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [Nek5000-users] Corner elements giving large values Dear Nek forum, I am simulating Rayleigh Benard flow in a 3D finite cylindrical annulus. I am getting spurious large values of velocity at the corner regions of the annulus i.e. the edges where the inner cylinder joins the top and bottom planes. The boundary condition is no-slip and no penetration for velocity at these edges. Can someone point out a plausible reason. Thank you Swarandeep _______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users
Hi Nek Forum, Paul I am having temp = 1 and temp = 0 at the inner and outer boundaries. Gravity is pointing in the -ve z-direction along the axis of the annulus. The top and bottom planes have zero heat flux conditions. I have Coriolis force added as a body force. The Rayleigh number is around 10000. The resolution is 8, 25, 24 elements in the r, phi and z directions respectively with order 9. My initial condition is very low arbitrary velocity perturbation (~10^(-8)). The time resolution is set to 10^(-5) for param12. The CFL is set to 0.5. Please indicate how to control it. As you have rightly mentioned, I start the simulation with a very low value of the Rayleigh number and gradually increase it. Yet, the corner values only get large. Other regions of the domain are fine. Thank you Swarandeep On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 7:38 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Swarandeep,
How large is your Rayleigh number and what is your resolution? What are your thermal bcs? What are your ICs?
There should be no particular issue with your configuration - but you do need to control spatial and temporal resolution.
For RB, you often have to start at low Ra and/or small dt because the nonlinear response can often drive the velocities to be quite high very rapidly before the CFL constraint kicks in. RB flows are one of the rare instances where I use variable time step size (param 12 > 0), but even then you have to keep the target CFL quite small until the flow is established.
hth,
Paul
________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of [email protected] [[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2017 7:27 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [Nek5000-users] Corner elements giving large values
Dear Nek forum,
I am simulating Rayleigh Benard flow in a 3D finite cylindrical annulus. I am getting spurious large values of velocity at the corner regions of the annulus i.e. the edges where the inner cylinder joins the top and bottom planes. The boundary condition is no-slip and no penetration for velocity at these edges. Can someone point out a plausible reason.
Thank you Swarandeep _______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users _______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users
Hi Swarandeep, Is 0/1 a realistic BC for T ? Best, Paul ________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of [email protected] [[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2017 12:53 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Nek5000-users] Corner elements giving large values Hi Nek Forum, Paul I am having temp = 1 and temp = 0 at the inner and outer boundaries. Gravity is pointing in the -ve z-direction along the axis of the annulus. The top and bottom planes have zero heat flux conditions. I have Coriolis force added as a body force. The Rayleigh number is around 10000. The resolution is 8, 25, 24 elements in the r, phi and z directions respectively with order 9. My initial condition is very low arbitrary velocity perturbation (~10^(-8)). The time resolution is set to 10^(-5) for param12. The CFL is set to 0.5. Please indicate how to control it. As you have rightly mentioned, I start the simulation with a very low value of the Rayleigh number and gradually increase it. Yet, the corner values only get large. Other regions of the domain are fine. Thank you Swarandeep On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 7:38 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Swarandeep,
How large is your Rayleigh number and what is your resolution? What are your thermal bcs? What are your ICs?
There should be no particular issue with your configuration - but you do need to control spatial and temporal resolution.
For RB, you often have to start at low Ra and/or small dt because the nonlinear response can often drive the velocities to be quite high very rapidly before the CFL constraint kicks in. RB flows are one of the rare instances where I use variable time step size (param 12 > 0), but even then you have to keep the target CFL quite small until the flow is established.
hth,
Paul
________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of [email protected] [[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2017 7:27 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [Nek5000-users] Corner elements giving large values
Dear Nek forum,
I am simulating Rayleigh Benard flow in a 3D finite cylindrical annulus. I am getting spurious large values of velocity at the corner regions of the annulus i.e. the edges where the inner cylinder joins the top and bottom planes. The boundary condition is no-slip and no penetration for velocity at these edges. Can someone point out a plausible reason.
Thank you Swarandeep _______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users _______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users
_______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users
Hi NekForum, Paul I intent to have isothermal conditions at the inner and outer cylinders. The differential heating is achieved by imposing a temperature difference across the two cylinders. I have used T = 1 and 0 values for non-dimensional temperature. I think it should be fine. Do you see any problem here. Thank you Swarandeep On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 11:28 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Swarandeep,
Is 0/1 a realistic BC for T ?
Best,
Paul
________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of [email protected] [[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2017 12:53 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Nek5000-users] Corner elements giving large values
Hi Nek Forum, Paul
I am having temp = 1 and temp = 0 at the inner and outer boundaries. Gravity is pointing in the -ve z-direction along the axis of the annulus. The top and bottom planes have zero heat flux conditions. I have Coriolis force added as a body force. The Rayleigh number is around 10000. The resolution is 8, 25, 24 elements in the r, phi and z directions respectively with order 9. My initial condition is very low arbitrary velocity perturbation (~10^(-8)). The time resolution is set to 10^(-5) for param12. The CFL is set to 0.5. Please indicate how to control it.
As you have rightly mentioned, I start the simulation with a very low value of the Rayleigh number and gradually increase it. Yet, the corner values only get large. Other regions of the domain are fine.
Thank you Swarandeep
On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 7:38 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Swarandeep,
How large is your Rayleigh number and what is your resolution? What are your thermal bcs? What are your ICs?
There should be no particular issue with your configuration - but you do need to control spatial and temporal resolution.
For RB, you often have to start at low Ra and/or small dt because the nonlinear response can often drive the velocities to be quite high very rapidly before the CFL constraint kicks in. RB flows are one of the rare instances where I use variable time step size (param 12 > 0), but even then you have to keep the target CFL quite small until the flow is established.
hth,
Paul
________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of [email protected] [[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2017 7:27 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [Nek5000-users] Corner elements giving large values
Dear Nek forum,
I am simulating Rayleigh Benard flow in a 3D finite cylindrical annulus. I am getting spurious large values of velocity at the corner regions of the annulus i.e. the edges where the inner cylinder joins the top and bottom planes. The boundary condition is no-slip and no penetration for velocity at these edges. Can someone point out a plausible reason.
Thank you Swarandeep _______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users _______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users
_______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users _______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users
Hi Swarandeep, Sorry - I misunderstood. I guess my question was more about the temperature bcs at the bottom and top of the domain? In general, however, there should be no difficulty. What happens when you reduce your dt ? You need to keep the CFL < ~0.5 in general. CFL is printed in the logfile, grep tep logfile and you'll see it "C= ....." Paul ________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of [email protected] [[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2017 1:57 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Nek5000-users] Corner elements giving large values Hi NekForum, Paul I intent to have isothermal conditions at the inner and outer cylinders. The differential heating is achieved by imposing a temperature difference across the two cylinders. I have used T = 1 and 0 values for non-dimensional temperature. I think it should be fine. Do you see any problem here. Thank you Swarandeep On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 11:28 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Swarandeep,
Is 0/1 a realistic BC for T ?
Best,
Paul
________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of [email protected] [[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2017 12:53 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Nek5000-users] Corner elements giving large values
Hi Nek Forum, Paul
I am having temp = 1 and temp = 0 at the inner and outer boundaries. Gravity is pointing in the -ve z-direction along the axis of the annulus. The top and bottom planes have zero heat flux conditions. I have Coriolis force added as a body force. The Rayleigh number is around 10000. The resolution is 8, 25, 24 elements in the r, phi and z directions respectively with order 9. My initial condition is very low arbitrary velocity perturbation (~10^(-8)). The time resolution is set to 10^(-5) for param12. The CFL is set to 0.5. Please indicate how to control it.
As you have rightly mentioned, I start the simulation with a very low value of the Rayleigh number and gradually increase it. Yet, the corner values only get large. Other regions of the domain are fine.
Thank you Swarandeep
On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 7:38 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Swarandeep,
How large is your Rayleigh number and what is your resolution? What are your thermal bcs? What are your ICs?
There should be no particular issue with your configuration - but you do need to control spatial and temporal resolution.
For RB, you often have to start at low Ra and/or small dt because the nonlinear response can often drive the velocities to be quite high very rapidly before the CFL constraint kicks in. RB flows are one of the rare instances where I use variable time step size (param 12 > 0), but even then you have to keep the target CFL quite small until the flow is established.
hth,
Paul
________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of [email protected] [[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2017 7:27 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [Nek5000-users] Corner elements giving large values
Dear Nek forum,
I am simulating Rayleigh Benard flow in a 3D finite cylindrical annulus. I am getting spurious large values of velocity at the corner regions of the annulus i.e. the edges where the inner cylinder joins the top and bottom planes. The boundary condition is no-slip and no penetration for velocity at these edges. Can someone point out a plausible reason.
Thank you Swarandeep _______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users _______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users
_______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users _______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users
_______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users
Hi Nek Forum, Paul The top and bottom BC are zero heat flux. Please let me n=know how to control the CFL. It is 0.5 in the logfile. I am having no particular difficulty except these corner elements at the junction of inner cylinder and the top/bottom planes. Is there a better way to treat edge boundary elements. Also is it possible to have different order of elements at different locations. Thank you Swarandeep On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 12:50 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Swarandeep,
Sorry - I misunderstood. I guess my question was more about the temperature bcs at the bottom and top of the domain?
In general, however, there should be no difficulty. What happens when you reduce your dt ?
You need to keep the CFL < ~0.5 in general. CFL is printed in the logfile,
grep tep logfile
and you'll see it "C= ....."
Paul
________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of [email protected] [[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2017 1:57 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Nek5000-users] Corner elements giving large values
Hi NekForum, Paul
I intent to have isothermal conditions at the inner and outer cylinders. The differential heating is achieved by imposing a temperature difference across the two cylinders. I have used T = 1 and 0 values for non-dimensional temperature. I think it should be fine. Do you see any problem here.
Thank you Swarandeep
On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 11:28 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Swarandeep,
Is 0/1 a realistic BC for T ?
Best,
Paul
________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of [email protected] [[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2017 12:53 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Nek5000-users] Corner elements giving large values
Hi Nek Forum, Paul
I am having temp = 1 and temp = 0 at the inner and outer boundaries. Gravity is pointing in the -ve z-direction along the axis of the annulus. The top and bottom planes have zero heat flux conditions. I have Coriolis force added as a body force. The Rayleigh number is around 10000. The resolution is 8, 25, 24 elements in the r, phi and z directions respectively with order 9. My initial condition is very low arbitrary velocity perturbation (~10^(-8)). The time resolution is set to 10^(-5) for param12. The CFL is set to 0.5. Please indicate how to control it.
As you have rightly mentioned, I start the simulation with a very low value of the Rayleigh number and gradually increase it. Yet, the corner values only get large. Other regions of the domain are fine.
Thank you Swarandeep
On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 7:38 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Swarandeep,
How large is your Rayleigh number and what is your resolution? What are your thermal bcs? What are your ICs?
There should be no particular issue with your configuration - but you do need to control spatial and temporal resolution.
For RB, you often have to start at low Ra and/or small dt because the nonlinear response can often drive the velocities to be quite high very rapidly before the CFL constraint kicks in. RB flows are one of the rare instances where I use variable time step size (param 12 > 0), but even then you have to keep the target CFL quite small until the flow is established.
hth,
Paul
________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of [email protected] [[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2017 7:27 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [Nek5000-users] Corner elements giving large values
Dear Nek forum,
I am simulating Rayleigh Benard flow in a 3D finite cylindrical annulus. I am getting spurious large values of velocity at the corner regions of the annulus i.e. the edges where the inner cylinder joins the top and bottom planes. The boundary condition is no-slip and no penetration for velocity at these edges. Can someone point out a plausible reason.
Thank you Swarandeep _______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users _______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users
_______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users _______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users
_______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users _______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users
Dear Swarandeep, Did you refine your element size at the top and bottom and near the side walls? Please set your CFL to 0.05 in order to get the flow started. Best, Paul ________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of [email protected] [[email protected]] Sent: Friday, June 02, 2017 1:04 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Nek5000-users] Corner elements giving large values Hi Nek Forum, Paul The top and bottom BC are zero heat flux. Please let me n=know how to control the CFL. It is 0.5 in the logfile. I am having no particular difficulty except these corner elements at the junction of inner cylinder and the top/bottom planes. Is there a better way to treat edge boundary elements. Also is it possible to have different order of elements at different locations. Thank you Swarandeep On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 12:50 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Swarandeep,
Sorry - I misunderstood. I guess my question was more about the temperature bcs at the bottom and top of the domain?
In general, however, there should be no difficulty. What happens when you reduce your dt ?
You need to keep the CFL < ~0.5 in general. CFL is printed in the logfile,
grep tep logfile
and you'll see it "C= ....."
Paul
________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of [email protected] [[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2017 1:57 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Nek5000-users] Corner elements giving large values
Hi NekForum, Paul
I intent to have isothermal conditions at the inner and outer cylinders. The differential heating is achieved by imposing a temperature difference across the two cylinders. I have used T = 1 and 0 values for non-dimensional temperature. I think it should be fine. Do you see any problem here.
Thank you Swarandeep
On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 11:28 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Swarandeep,
Is 0/1 a realistic BC for T ?
Best,
Paul
________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of [email protected] [[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2017 12:53 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Nek5000-users] Corner elements giving large values
Hi Nek Forum, Paul
I am having temp = 1 and temp = 0 at the inner and outer boundaries. Gravity is pointing in the -ve z-direction along the axis of the annulus. The top and bottom planes have zero heat flux conditions. I have Coriolis force added as a body force. The Rayleigh number is around 10000. The resolution is 8, 25, 24 elements in the r, phi and z directions respectively with order 9. My initial condition is very low arbitrary velocity perturbation (~10^(-8)). The time resolution is set to 10^(-5) for param12. The CFL is set to 0.5. Please indicate how to control it.
As you have rightly mentioned, I start the simulation with a very low value of the Rayleigh number and gradually increase it. Yet, the corner values only get large. Other regions of the domain are fine.
Thank you Swarandeep
On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 7:38 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Swarandeep,
How large is your Rayleigh number and what is your resolution? What are your thermal bcs? What are your ICs?
There should be no particular issue with your configuration - but you do need to control spatial and temporal resolution.
For RB, you often have to start at low Ra and/or small dt because the nonlinear response can often drive the velocities to be quite high very rapidly before the CFL constraint kicks in. RB flows are one of the rare instances where I use variable time step size (param 12 > 0), but even then you have to keep the target CFL quite small until the flow is established.
hth,
Paul
________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of [email protected] [[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2017 7:27 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [Nek5000-users] Corner elements giving large values
Dear Nek forum,
I am simulating Rayleigh Benard flow in a 3D finite cylindrical annulus. I am getting spurious large values of velocity at the corner regions of the annulus i.e. the edges where the inner cylinder joins the top and bottom planes. The boundary condition is no-slip and no penetration for velocity at these edges. Can someone point out a plausible reason.
Thank you Swarandeep _______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users _______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users
_______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users _______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users
_______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users _______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users
_______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users
Dear Nek Forum, Paul Yes, I have user defined grid such that the locations of the elements are distributed to lie on the chebyshev grid at the top and bottom and near the side walls. Also please tell which param sets the CFL. Thank you Swarandeep On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 8:00 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Swarandeep,
Did you refine your element size at the top and bottom and near the side walls?
Please set your CFL to 0.05 in order to get the flow started.
Best,
Paul
________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of [email protected] [[email protected]] Sent: Friday, June 02, 2017 1:04 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Nek5000-users] Corner elements giving large values
Hi Nek Forum, Paul
The top and bottom BC are zero heat flux. Please let me n=know how to control the CFL. It is 0.5 in the logfile. I am having no particular difficulty except these corner elements at the junction of inner cylinder and the top/bottom planes. Is there a better way to treat edge boundary elements. Also is it possible to have different order of elements at different locations.
Thank you Swarandeep
On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 12:50 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Swarandeep,
Sorry - I misunderstood. I guess my question was more about the temperature bcs at the bottom and top of the domain?
In general, however, there should be no difficulty. What happens when you reduce your dt ?
You need to keep the CFL < ~0.5 in general. CFL is printed in the logfile,
grep tep logfile
and you'll see it "C= ....."
Paul
________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of [email protected] [[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2017 1:57 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Nek5000-users] Corner elements giving large values
Hi NekForum, Paul
I intent to have isothermal conditions at the inner and outer cylinders. The differential heating is achieved by imposing a temperature difference across the two cylinders. I have used T = 1 and 0 values for non-dimensional temperature. I think it should be fine. Do you see any problem here.
Thank you Swarandeep
On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 11:28 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Swarandeep,
Is 0/1 a realistic BC for T ?
Best,
Paul
________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of [email protected] [[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2017 12:53 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Nek5000-users] Corner elements giving large values
Hi Nek Forum, Paul
I am having temp = 1 and temp = 0 at the inner and outer boundaries. Gravity is pointing in the -ve z-direction along the axis of the annulus. The top and bottom planes have zero heat flux conditions. I have Coriolis force added as a body force. The Rayleigh number is around 10000. The resolution is 8, 25, 24 elements in the r, phi and z directions respectively with order 9. My initial condition is very low arbitrary velocity perturbation (~10^(-8)). The time resolution is set to 10^(-5) for param12. The CFL is set to 0.5. Please indicate how to control it.
As you have rightly mentioned, I start the simulation with a very low value of the Rayleigh number and gradually increase it. Yet, the corner values only get large. Other regions of the domain are fine.
Thank you Swarandeep
On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 7:38 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Swarandeep,
How large is your Rayleigh number and what is your resolution? What are your thermal bcs? What are your ICs?
There should be no particular issue with your configuration - but you do need to control spatial and temporal resolution.
For RB, you often have to start at low Ra and/or small dt because the nonlinear response can often drive the velocities to be quite high very rapidly before the CFL constraint kicks in. RB flows are one of the rare instances where I use variable time step size (param 12 > 0), but even then you have to keep the target CFL quite small until the flow is established.
hth,
Paul
________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of [email protected] [[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2017 7:27 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [Nek5000-users] Corner elements giving large values
Dear Nek forum,
I am simulating Rayleigh Benard flow in a 3D finite cylindrical annulus. I am getting spurious large values of velocity at the corner regions of the annulus i.e. the edges where the inner cylinder joins the top and bottom planes. The boundary condition is no-slip and no penetration for velocity at these edges. Can someone point out a plausible reason.
Thank you Swarandeep _______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users _______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users
_______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users _______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users
_______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users _______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users
_______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users _______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users
Hi Swarandeep, Set p26 in the .rea file to be 0.1 and make certain IFCHAR is F (a few lines below); Make certain your dt is positive (param 12) Paul ________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of [email protected] [[email protected]] Sent: Friday, June 02, 2017 10:31 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Nek5000-users] Corner elements giving large values Dear Nek Forum, Paul Yes, I have user defined grid such that the locations of the elements are distributed to lie on the chebyshev grid at the top and bottom and near the side walls. Also please tell which param sets the CFL. Thank you Swarandeep On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 8:00 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Swarandeep,
Did you refine your element size at the top and bottom and near the side walls?
Please set your CFL to 0.05 in order to get the flow started.
Best,
Paul
________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of [email protected] [[email protected]] Sent: Friday, June 02, 2017 1:04 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Nek5000-users] Corner elements giving large values
Hi Nek Forum, Paul
The top and bottom BC are zero heat flux. Please let me n=know how to control the CFL. It is 0.5 in the logfile. I am having no particular difficulty except these corner elements at the junction of inner cylinder and the top/bottom planes. Is there a better way to treat edge boundary elements. Also is it possible to have different order of elements at different locations.
Thank you Swarandeep
On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 12:50 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Swarandeep,
Sorry - I misunderstood. I guess my question was more about the temperature bcs at the bottom and top of the domain?
In general, however, there should be no difficulty. What happens when you reduce your dt ?
You need to keep the CFL < ~0.5 in general. CFL is printed in the logfile,
grep tep logfile
and you'll see it "C= ....."
Paul
________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of [email protected] [[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2017 1:57 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Nek5000-users] Corner elements giving large values
Hi NekForum, Paul
I intent to have isothermal conditions at the inner and outer cylinders. The differential heating is achieved by imposing a temperature difference across the two cylinders. I have used T = 1 and 0 values for non-dimensional temperature. I think it should be fine. Do you see any problem here.
Thank you Swarandeep
On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 11:28 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Swarandeep,
Is 0/1 a realistic BC for T ?
Best,
Paul
________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of [email protected] [[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2017 12:53 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Nek5000-users] Corner elements giving large values
Hi Nek Forum, Paul
I am having temp = 1 and temp = 0 at the inner and outer boundaries. Gravity is pointing in the -ve z-direction along the axis of the annulus. The top and bottom planes have zero heat flux conditions. I have Coriolis force added as a body force. The Rayleigh number is around 10000. The resolution is 8, 25, 24 elements in the r, phi and z directions respectively with order 9. My initial condition is very low arbitrary velocity perturbation (~10^(-8)). The time resolution is set to 10^(-5) for param12. The CFL is set to 0.5. Please indicate how to control it.
As you have rightly mentioned, I start the simulation with a very low value of the Rayleigh number and gradually increase it. Yet, the corner values only get large. Other regions of the domain are fine.
Thank you Swarandeep
On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 7:38 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Swarandeep,
How large is your Rayleigh number and what is your resolution? What are your thermal bcs? What are your ICs?
There should be no particular issue with your configuration - but you do need to control spatial and temporal resolution.
For RB, you often have to start at low Ra and/or small dt because the nonlinear response can often drive the velocities to be quite high very rapidly before the CFL constraint kicks in. RB flows are one of the rare instances where I use variable time step size (param 12 > 0), but even then you have to keep the target CFL quite small until the flow is established.
hth,
Paul
________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of [email protected] [[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2017 7:27 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [Nek5000-users] Corner elements giving large values
Dear Nek forum,
I am simulating Rayleigh Benard flow in a 3D finite cylindrical annulus. I am getting spurious large values of velocity at the corner regions of the annulus i.e. the edges where the inner cylinder joins the top and bottom planes. The boundary condition is no-slip and no penetration for velocity at these edges. Can someone point out a plausible reason.
Thank you Swarandeep _______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users _______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users
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Hi Nek Forum, Paul Thanks for the suggestions. I implemented them. Waiting for the simulation to be over. Another issue I have is that the BC for T at the inner cylinder wall does not stay at 0 as I have given in userbc. It becomes 0.2 over some time. Thank you Swarandeep On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 10:28 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Swarandeep,
Set p26 in the .rea file to be 0.1 and make certain IFCHAR is F (a few lines below);
Make certain your dt is positive (param 12)
Paul
________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of [email protected] [[email protected]] Sent: Friday, June 02, 2017 10:31 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Nek5000-users] Corner elements giving large values
Dear Nek Forum, Paul
Yes, I have user defined grid such that the locations of the elements are distributed to lie on the chebyshev grid at the top and bottom and near the side walls. Also please tell which param sets the CFL.
Thank you Swarandeep
On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 8:00 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Swarandeep,
Did you refine your element size at the top and bottom and near the side walls?
Please set your CFL to 0.05 in order to get the flow started.
Best,
Paul
________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of [email protected] [[email protected]] Sent: Friday, June 02, 2017 1:04 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Nek5000-users] Corner elements giving large values
Hi Nek Forum, Paul
The top and bottom BC are zero heat flux. Please let me n=know how to control the CFL. It is 0.5 in the logfile. I am having no particular difficulty except these corner elements at the junction of inner cylinder and the top/bottom planes. Is there a better way to treat edge boundary elements. Also is it possible to have different order of elements at different locations.
Thank you Swarandeep
On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 12:50 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Swarandeep,
Sorry - I misunderstood. I guess my question was more about the temperature bcs at the bottom and top of the domain?
In general, however, there should be no difficulty. What happens when you reduce your dt ?
You need to keep the CFL < ~0.5 in general. CFL is printed in the logfile,
grep tep logfile
and you'll see it "C= ....."
Paul
________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of [email protected] [[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2017 1:57 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Nek5000-users] Corner elements giving large values
Hi NekForum, Paul
I intent to have isothermal conditions at the inner and outer cylinders. The differential heating is achieved by imposing a temperature difference across the two cylinders. I have used T = 1 and 0 values for non-dimensional temperature. I think it should be fine. Do you see any problem here.
Thank you Swarandeep
On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 11:28 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Swarandeep,
Is 0/1 a realistic BC for T ?
Best,
Paul
________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of [email protected] [[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2017 12:53 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Nek5000-users] Corner elements giving large values
Hi Nek Forum, Paul
I am having temp = 1 and temp = 0 at the inner and outer boundaries. Gravity is pointing in the -ve z-direction along the axis of the annulus. The top and bottom planes have zero heat flux conditions. I have Coriolis force added as a body force. The Rayleigh number is around 10000. The resolution is 8, 25, 24 elements in the r, phi and z directions respectively with order 9. My initial condition is very low arbitrary velocity perturbation (~10^(-8)). The time resolution is set to 10^(-5) for param12. The CFL is set to 0.5. Please indicate how to control it.
As you have rightly mentioned, I start the simulation with a very low value of the Rayleigh number and gradually increase it. Yet, the corner values only get large. Other regions of the domain are fine.
Thank you Swarandeep
On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 7:38 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Swarandeep,
How large is your Rayleigh number and what is your resolution? What are your thermal bcs? What are your ICs?
There should be no particular issue with your configuration - but you do need to control spatial and temporal resolution.
For RB, you often have to start at low Ra and/or small dt because the nonlinear response can often drive the velocities to be quite high very rapidly before the CFL constraint kicks in. RB flows are one of the rare instances where I use variable time step size (param 12 > 0), but even then you have to keep the target CFL quite small until the flow is established.
hth,
Paul
________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of [email protected] [[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2017 7:27 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [Nek5000-users] Corner elements giving large values
Dear Nek forum,
I am simulating Rayleigh Benard flow in a 3D finite cylindrical annulus. I am getting spurious large values of velocity at the corner regions of the annulus i.e. the edges where the inner cylinder joins the top and bottom planes. The boundary condition is no-slip and no penetration for velocity at these edges. Can someone point out a plausible reason.
Thank you Swarandeep _______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users _______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users
_______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users _______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users
_______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users _______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users
_______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users _______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users
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Swarandeep, if you send me your .rea/.usr/SIZE file off-list, I'll take a look. Paul ________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of [email protected] [[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2017 2:42 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Nek5000-users] Corner elements giving large values Hi Nek Forum, Paul Thanks for the suggestions. I implemented them. Waiting for the simulation to be over. Another issue I have is that the BC for T at the inner cylinder wall does not stay at 0 as I have given in userbc. It becomes 0.2 over some time. Thank you Swarandeep On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 10:28 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Swarandeep,
Set p26 in the .rea file to be 0.1 and make certain IFCHAR is F (a few lines below);
Make certain your dt is positive (param 12)
Paul
________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of [email protected] [[email protected]] Sent: Friday, June 02, 2017 10:31 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Nek5000-users] Corner elements giving large values
Dear Nek Forum, Paul
Yes, I have user defined grid such that the locations of the elements are distributed to lie on the chebyshev grid at the top and bottom and near the side walls. Also please tell which param sets the CFL.
Thank you Swarandeep
On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 8:00 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Swarandeep,
Did you refine your element size at the top and bottom and near the side walls?
Please set your CFL to 0.05 in order to get the flow started.
Best,
Paul
________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of [email protected] [[email protected]] Sent: Friday, June 02, 2017 1:04 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Nek5000-users] Corner elements giving large values
Hi Nek Forum, Paul
The top and bottom BC are zero heat flux. Please let me n=know how to control the CFL. It is 0.5 in the logfile. I am having no particular difficulty except these corner elements at the junction of inner cylinder and the top/bottom planes. Is there a better way to treat edge boundary elements. Also is it possible to have different order of elements at different locations.
Thank you Swarandeep
On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 12:50 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Swarandeep,
Sorry - I misunderstood. I guess my question was more about the temperature bcs at the bottom and top of the domain?
In general, however, there should be no difficulty. What happens when you reduce your dt ?
You need to keep the CFL < ~0.5 in general. CFL is printed in the logfile,
grep tep logfile
and you'll see it "C= ....."
Paul
________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of [email protected] [[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2017 1:57 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Nek5000-users] Corner elements giving large values
Hi NekForum, Paul
I intent to have isothermal conditions at the inner and outer cylinders. The differential heating is achieved by imposing a temperature difference across the two cylinders. I have used T = 1 and 0 values for non-dimensional temperature. I think it should be fine. Do you see any problem here.
Thank you Swarandeep
On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 11:28 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Swarandeep,
Is 0/1 a realistic BC for T ?
Best,
Paul
________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of [email protected] [[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2017 12:53 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Nek5000-users] Corner elements giving large values
Hi Nek Forum, Paul
I am having temp = 1 and temp = 0 at the inner and outer boundaries. Gravity is pointing in the -ve z-direction along the axis of the annulus. The top and bottom planes have zero heat flux conditions. I have Coriolis force added as a body force. The Rayleigh number is around 10000. The resolution is 8, 25, 24 elements in the r, phi and z directions respectively with order 9. My initial condition is very low arbitrary velocity perturbation (~10^(-8)). The time resolution is set to 10^(-5) for param12. The CFL is set to 0.5. Please indicate how to control it.
As you have rightly mentioned, I start the simulation with a very low value of the Rayleigh number and gradually increase it. Yet, the corner values only get large. Other regions of the domain are fine.
Thank you Swarandeep
On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 7:38 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Swarandeep,
How large is your Rayleigh number and what is your resolution? What are your thermal bcs? What are your ICs?
There should be no particular issue with your configuration - but you do need to control spatial and temporal resolution.
For RB, you often have to start at low Ra and/or small dt because the nonlinear response can often drive the velocities to be quite high very rapidly before the CFL constraint kicks in. RB flows are one of the rare instances where I use variable time step size (param 12 > 0), but even then you have to keep the target CFL quite small until the flow is established.
hth,
Paul
________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of [email protected] [[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2017 7:27 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [Nek5000-users] Corner elements giving large values
Dear Nek forum,
I am simulating Rayleigh Benard flow in a 3D finite cylindrical annulus. I am getting spurious large values of velocity at the corner regions of the annulus i.e. the edges where the inner cylinder joins the top and bottom planes. The boundary condition is no-slip and no penetration for velocity at these edges. Can someone point out a plausible reason.
Thank you Swarandeep _______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users _______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users
_______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users _______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users
_______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users _______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users
_______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users _______________________________________________ Nek5000-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mcs.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/nek5000-users
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