July 2013 - petsc-dev - mailman3.cels.anl.gov

Re: [petsc-dev] seen on a competitors site
by Jed Brown 09 Jul '13

09 Jul '13

Aron Ahmadia <aron(a)ahmadia.net> writes: > http://docs.continuum.io/conda/build.html > > Probably most relevant :) > > https://github.com/ContinuumIO/conda-recipes/tree/master/trilinos Looks easy. Is there some automated testing or are we expected to spin up Anaconda instances on all supported architectures?

1 0

Re: [petsc-dev] seen on a competitors site
by Jed Brown 09 Jul '13

09 Jul '13

Satish Balay <balay(a)mcs.anl.gov> writes: > Hm http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/pricing/ talks about 'instances' 'small, > medium, large etc..' Not sure what they refer to. http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/instance-types/ The CC2 systems are likely most suitable for scientific purposes. > [petsc@localhost ~]$ du -sh petsc-3.3-p6/ > 1.5G petsc-3.3-p6/ > [petsc@localhost ~]$ du -sh petsc-3.3-p6/arch-linux2-c-debug/ > 639M petsc-3.3-p6/arch-linux2-c-debug/ > [petsc@localhost ~]$ du -sh petsc-3.3-p6/externalpackages/ > 676M petsc-3.3-p6/externalpackages/ I don't think the object files or external package source is useful. Linux certainly doesn't need that stuff for debugging. Check the size of the shared libraries for a debugging build. > I was guessing one would use 'ssh' to login to EC2? - so X11 over ssh > might be useful? [perhaps not a desktop] Yeah, I don't know many people that use X11 over ssh in that way, but it's not much effort to offer, so maybe it's worthwhile anyway.

1 0

Re: [petsc-dev] seen on a competitors site
by Aron Ahmadia 09 Jul '13

09 Jul '13

On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 4:51 PM, Jed Brown <jedbrown(a)mcs.anl.gov> wrote: > > > If you guys want to go through the small pain of setting up conda > > installation files for binstar, Continuum can host you guys through > wakari > > (including launching parallel cloud runs on EC2), as well as provide > binary > > installers for you on OS X, Windows, and Linux. > > Can you point us to an example so we can see what's involved? > http://docs.continuum.io/conda/build.html Probably most relevant :) https://github.com/ContinuumIO/conda-recipes/tree/master/trilinos A

1 0

Re: [petsc-dev] seen on a competitors site
by Satish Balay 09 Jul '13

09 Jul '13

On Tue, 9 Jul 2013, Jed Brown wrote: > Satish Balay <balay(a)mcs.anl.gov> writes: > > > I was thinking more in terms of what amzon would charge for using such > > big images. [presumably charge rate would be higher] > > It is just disk space; the EBS limit is 1 TiB: > > http://docs.aws.amazon.com/AWSEC2/latest/UserGuide/ComponentsAMIs.html#stor… Hm http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/pricing/ talks about 'instances' 'small, medium, large etc..' Not sure what they refer to. > >> I don't understand how it can be that big. 6GB is my entire system > >> including KDE, GNOME, and ton of other huge extraneous packages. > >> Non-debug libpetsc.so is less than 10MB. Anyway, I think this is the > >> distribution model > > > > The debug builds are huge. [perhaps they can be trimmed down a bit > > with -g insted of '-g3' ] > > My build with gcc-4.8.1 -g3 is 45 MB and with clang-3.3 -g3 is 28 MB. > This amount of storage is not the problem. [petsc@localhost ~]$ du -sh petsc-3.3-p6/ 1.5G petsc-3.3-p6/ [petsc@localhost ~]$ du -sh petsc-3.3-p6/arch-linux2-c-debug/ 639M petsc-3.3-p6/arch-linux2-c-debug/ [petsc@localhost ~]$ du -sh petsc-3.3-p6/externalpackages/ 676M petsc-3.3-p6/externalpackages/ [petsc@localhost ~]$ du -sh petsc-3.3-p6/arch-linux2-c-debug/lib/* 1.6M petsc-3.3-p6/arch-linux2-c-debug/lib/libamd.2.2.2.a 0 petsc-3.3-p6/arch-linux2-c-debug/lib/libamd.a 20M petsc-3.3-p6/arch-linux2-c-debug/lib/libblacs.a 7.0M petsc-3.3-p6/arch-linux2-c-debug/lib/libchaco.a 4.4M petsc-3.3-p6/arch-linux2-c-debug/lib/libcmumps.a 4.3M petsc-3.3-p6/arch-linux2-c-debug/lib/libdmumps.a 48M petsc-3.3-p6/arch-linux2-c-debug/lib/libHYPRE.a 7.1M petsc-3.3-p6/arch-linux2-c-debug/lib/libmetis.a 1.3M petsc-3.3-p6/arch-linux2-c-debug/lib/libmumps_common.a 6.5M petsc-3.3-p6/arch-linux2-c-debug/lib/libparmetis.a 172M petsc-3.3-p6/arch-linux2-c-debug/lib/libpetsc.a 1.1M petsc-3.3-p6/arch-linux2-c-debug/lib/libpord.a 968K petsc-3.3-p6/arch-linux2-c-debug/lib/libptesmumps.a 37M petsc-3.3-p6/arch-linux2-c-debug/lib/libptscotch.a 136K petsc-3.3-p6/arch-linux2-c-debug/lib/libptscotcherr.a 136K petsc-3.3-p6/arch-linux2-c-debug/lib/libptscotcherrexit.a 484K petsc-3.3-p6/arch-linux2-c-debug/lib/libptscotchparmetis.a 29M petsc-3.3-p6/arch-linux2-c-debug/lib/libscalapack.a 4.3M petsc-3.3-p6/arch-linux2-c-debug/lib/libsmumps.a 1.4M petsc-3.3-p6/arch-linux2-c-debug/lib/libspai.a 22M petsc-3.3-p6/arch-linux2-c-debug/lib/libspooles.a 11M petsc-3.3-p6/arch-linux2-c-debug/lib/libsuperlu_4.3.a 6.5M petsc-3.3-p6/arch-linux2-c-debug/lib/libsuperlu_dist_3.1.a 264K petsc-3.3-p6/arch-linux2-c-debug/lib/libtriangle.a 32M petsc-3.3-p6/arch-linux2-c-debug/lib/libumfpack.5.5.1.a 0 petsc-3.3-p6/arch-linux2-c-debug/lib/libumfpack.a 4.4M petsc-3.3-p6/arch-linux2-c-debug/lib/libzmumps.a [petsc@localhost ~]$ > > > Also we discussed defaulting to gcc-4.7+ - so I used fedora-18 which > > has that default. And all the default developer software adds up to > > the basic install. > > > > I attempted a minimal linux with xfce [one of the light weight > > desktops] If we distribute images we need a desktop - but with amazon > > - I guess that could be cut down [and cut down X?] - and bring down > > the disk requirement. > > Do people want remote desktop on EC2? If AMS can provide GUI stuff then > even PETSC_VIEWER_DRAW_ functionality could be put in their web browser, > which I think will ultimately be nicer to interact with anyway (but > makes https critical unless we also ask them to add port forwarding so > that it tunnels over SSH). I was guessing one would use 'ssh' to login to EC2? - so X11 over ssh might be useful? [perhaps not a desktop] The image I created [with desktop] was more from the POV of downloading one from our ftp site - and running on VirtualBox. > > Also amazon images might cut down on swap and other stuff that might > > take up space on a regular VM. [my cleaned up image of 5.4GB might be > > with swap zeroed/compressed out..] > > Ultimately, it doesn't matter because it'll all be in EBS and 5GB > vs. 50GB is irrelevant. It matters for a VM. ok.. satish

1 0

Re: [petsc-dev] seen on a competitors site
by Jed Brown 09 Jul '13

09 Jul '13

Aron Ahmadia <aron(a)ahmadia.net> writes: > If you guys want to go through the small pain of setting up conda > installation files for binstar, Continuum can host you guys through wakari > (including launching parallel cloud runs on EC2), as well as provide binary > installers for you on OS X, Windows, and Linux. Can you point us to an example so we can see what's involved?

1 0

Re: [petsc-dev] seen on a competitors site
by Matthew Knepley 09 Jul '13

09 Jul '13

On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 3:45 PM, Jed Brown <jedbrown(a)mcs.anl.gov> wrote: > Matthew Knepley <knepley(a)gmail.com> writes: > > > I have a buddy with a company that does this. Once they are more > > established, I think it might be a good collaboration. EC2 time is > > still expensive enough that the only people that use it are willing to > > pay for software and support. > > If you are fine with batch processing, you can use the Spot pricing, > which gets you a 2-socket E5-2670 compute node with 10 GbE and 60 GB of > memory for $0.27/hour. It takes 100 nodes just to equal the hourly wage > of a grad student. Is that not a decent price? > > (The unreserved on-demand rate is about 4x higher, and there are > reserved instances of intermediate cost, plus an annual fee.) > I meant the reserved rate. Matt -- What most experimenters take for granted before they begin their experiments is infinitely more interesting than any results to which their experiments lead. -- Norbert Wiener

1 0

Re: [petsc-dev] seen on a competitors site
by Jed Brown 09 Jul '13

09 Jul '13

Matthew Knepley <knepley(a)gmail.com> writes: > I have a buddy with a company that does this. Once they are more > established, I think it might be a good collaboration. EC2 time is > still expensive enough that the only people that use it are willing to > pay for software and support. If you are fine with batch processing, you can use the Spot pricing, which gets you a 2-socket E5-2670 compute node with 10 GbE and 60 GB of memory for $0.27/hour. It takes 100 nodes just to equal the hourly wage of a grad student. Is that not a decent price? (The unreserved on-demand rate is about 4x higher, and there are reserved instances of intermediate cost, plus an annual fee.)

1 0

Re: [petsc-dev] seen on a competitors site
by Aron Ahmadia 09 Jul '13

09 Jul '13

If you guys want to go through the small pain of setting up conda installation files for binstar, Continuum can host you guys through wakari (including launching parallel cloud runs on EC2), as well as provide binary installers for you on OS X, Windows, and Linux. A On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 4:33 PM, Jed Brown <jedbrown(a)mcs.anl.gov> wrote: > Satish Balay <balay(a)mcs.anl.gov> writes: > > > I was thinking more in terms of what amzon would charge for using such > > big images. [presumably charge rate would be higher] > > It is just disk space; the EBS limit is 1 TiB: > > > http://docs.aws.amazon.com/AWSEC2/latest/UserGuide/ComponentsAMIs.html#stor… > > >> I don't understand how it can be that big. 6GB is my entire system > >> including KDE, GNOME, and ton of other huge extraneous packages. > >> Non-debug libpetsc.so is less than 10MB. Anyway, I think this is the > >> distribution model > > > > The debug builds are huge. [perhaps they can be trimmed down a bit > > with -g insted of '-g3' ] > > My build with gcc-4.8.1 -g3 is 45 MB and with clang-3.3 -g3 is 28 MB. > This amount of storage is not the problem. > > > Also we discussed defaulting to gcc-4.7+ - so I used fedora-18 which > > has that default. And all the default developer software adds up to > > the basic install. > > > > I attempted a minimal linux with xfce [one of the light weight > > desktops] If we distribute images we need a desktop - but with amazon > > - I guess that could be cut down [and cut down X?] - and bring down > > the disk requirement. > > Do people want remote desktop on EC2? If AMS can provide GUI stuff then > even PETSC_VIEWER_DRAW_ functionality could be put in their web browser, > which I think will ultimately be nicer to interact with anyway (but > makes https critical unless we also ask them to add port forwarding so > that it tunnels over SSH). > > > Also amazon images might cut down on swap and other stuff that might > > take up space on a regular VM. [my cleaned up image of 5.4GB might be > > with swap zeroed/compressed out..] > > Ultimately, it doesn't matter because it'll all be in EBS and 5GB > vs. 50GB is irrelevant. It matters for a VM. >

1 0

Re: [petsc-dev] seen on a competitors site
by Jed Brown 09 Jul '13

09 Jul '13

Satish Balay <balay(a)mcs.anl.gov> writes: > I was thinking more in terms of what amzon would charge for using such > big images. [presumably charge rate would be higher] It is just disk space; the EBS limit is 1 TiB: http://docs.aws.amazon.com/AWSEC2/latest/UserGuide/ComponentsAMIs.html#stor… >> I don't understand how it can be that big. 6GB is my entire system >> including KDE, GNOME, and ton of other huge extraneous packages. >> Non-debug libpetsc.so is less than 10MB. Anyway, I think this is the >> distribution model > > The debug builds are huge. [perhaps they can be trimmed down a bit > with -g insted of '-g3' ] My build with gcc-4.8.1 -g3 is 45 MB and with clang-3.3 -g3 is 28 MB. This amount of storage is not the problem. > Also we discussed defaulting to gcc-4.7+ - so I used fedora-18 which > has that default. And all the default developer software adds up to > the basic install. > > I attempted a minimal linux with xfce [one of the light weight > desktops] If we distribute images we need a desktop - but with amazon > - I guess that could be cut down [and cut down X?] - and bring down > the disk requirement. Do people want remote desktop on EC2? If AMS can provide GUI stuff then even PETSC_VIEWER_DRAW_ functionality could be put in their web browser, which I think will ultimately be nicer to interact with anyway (but makes https critical unless we also ask them to add port forwarding so that it tunnels over SSH). > Also amazon images might cut down on swap and other stuff that might > take up space on a regular VM. [my cleaned up image of 5.4GB might be > with swap zeroed/compressed out..] Ultimately, it doesn't matter because it'll all be in EBS and 5GB vs. 50GB is irrelevant. It matters for a VM.

1 0

Re: [petsc-dev] seen on a competitors site
by Satish Balay 09 Jul '13

09 Jul '13

On Tue, 9 Jul 2013, Jed Brown wrote: > Barry Smith <bsmith(a)mcs.anl.gov> writes: > > > Presumably these images sit somewhere directly on the Amazon EC2 > > (and are never brought home to ANL or anywhere else) so storing them > > and "moving them" is not an issue? Doesn't anyone using Amazon EC2 > > have to deal with the fact that the Linux image is big? I was thinking more in terms of what amzon would charge for using such big images. [presumably charge rate would be higher] > I don't understand how it can be that big. 6GB is my entire system > including KDE, GNOME, and ton of other huge extraneous packages. > Non-debug libpetsc.so is less than 10MB. Anyway, I think this is the > distribution model The debug builds are huge. [perhaps they can be trimmed down a bit with -g insted of '-g3' ] Also we discussed defaulting to gcc-4.7+ - so I used fedora-18 which has that default. And all the default developer software adds up to the basic install. I attempted a minimal linux with xfce [one of the light weight desktops] If we distribute images we need a desktop - but with amazon - I guess that could be cut down [and cut down X?] - and bring down the disk requirement. Also amazon images might cut down on swap and other stuff that might take up space on a regular VM. [my cleaned up image of 5.4GB might be with swap zeroed/compressed out..] Satish > > https://aws.amazon.com/amis >

1 0